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[楼主] 作者:jqsphy  发表时间:2003/05/24 21:40
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Podkletnov's First Device> Woodward's First Device>
The First Podkletnov Experiment The First Woodward Experiment

Experiments in 1992 in Finland seemed to show that the Earth's gravity could be shielded or modified with a superconductor.  This experiment>, by Eugene PodkletnovDid his device truely shield gravity, or was it a fluke, a mistake in experiment design?  Podkletnov maintains that his experiments were thorough.  However, he apparently did not share his findings nor the details of his apparatus with the university or his coworkers at the time, so he perhaps unwittingly, perhaps permanently, cast doubt on the accuracy of his claims.

What do other physicists say?  One physicist has tried to explain Podkletnov's surprising results; papers> written by G. Modanese and De Podesta and Bull>, offer alternative, non-gravitational explanations based on normal physical effects missed by Podkletnov.  Amazingly, two other physicists, Li and Torr, have written papers (2 papers> before Podkletnov published his results, and 1 after>) that predicted rotating superconductors in an alternating magnetic field would generate gravity -- perhaps Podkletnov has detected the effect they predicted.  NASA wants to know too -- they have had a program in place> researching this for nearly 3 years.

Many other physicists simply laugh and say it's impossible due to conservation of energy, general relativity, or the fact that gravity really isn't a force -- it's just an implication of the 4 dimensional space we live in, and leave it at that.

In all honesty, according to known physical principles, gravity cannot be shielded or modified.  No combination of electromagnetic fields of any conceivable strength (that could be generated on Earth with conventional technology), near a superconductor or not, could modify gravity in any discernable way.  In fact, there are so many known ways in which strong electric and magnetic fields can exert strong forces on nearby objects, that these sorts of effects almost always dominate weight measurements over even moderate changes in gravity.  Thus, the design of any experiment to test for gravity changes in the vicinity of strong magnetic and/or electric fields (as in the Podkletnov device) must always be done very carefully.  Attention must be paid to all of the forces present.  It is not clear at all that Podkletnov's claims of having taken care of all that is valid.  It is these sorts of issues that have stymied NASA so far.

Because Podkletnov's claims have such far-reaching implications, a number of different groups are conducting experiments to reproduce the effect.  The highest profile attempt> to reproduce Podkletnov's experiment is underway by a team at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville Alabama (the NASA program I mentioned before); it is part of NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion> Physics Program.  Their preliminary report> indicates that the effect does not exist.  However, this report covers experiments more like John Schnurer's than Eugene Podkletnov's.  NASA's full Podkletnov replication is still underway (even as of January, 1999!).  Who's John Schnurer? The self-taught experimenter John H. Schnurer, Yellow Springs, Ohio, who was written up in Business Week>.  In this article, and subsequent online activity, he claimed his much simpler experiment, also using superconductors, produced an even stronger gravity shielding effect than Podkletnov did. Other experiments> (by physicists and others) are exploring the boundaries of the effect by modifying or simplifying various aspects of the Tampere device.

Clearly, the concept of generating anti-gravity, or shielding from the affect of Earth's gravity, is a very romantic idea in the science fiction sense.  Imagine launching satellites by cancelling their weight and then gently tapping them into orbit with your finger; or a wheel chair that suspends its rider in a zero-G field.  How about anti-gravity running shoes (made illegal in the next olympics!)?

There has been some coverage of this subject in the popular press> -- more than many conspiracy theorists realize.  Despite the fact that there are quite a few web pages dedicated to this subject, none are comprehensive in coverage nor take a serious scientific view of it (although I'm sure their authors will beg to differ); many, except for The Gravity Society,> embrace this phenomenon in the context of UFOs and free energy.  Not that I am dismissing such subjects out of hand -- but the association of these fields with gravity shielding, together with the mistakes the press and the scientific community made at the height of the cold-fusion announcements in the early 90's, has caused a more conservative approach to the subject in the media.

As writer and physicist John Cramer has pointed out>, there is a perhaps more likely advanced propulsion technology, one that might allow us to tap into the universal source of inertia and use it to travel to the stars -- James F. Woodward's Mach's Principle propulsion theory>.  He has written up his theories in a series of at least 9 papers in Foundations of Physics Letters and other places; he has done thorough, rigorous experimental work; he has documented the design of his experiments in great detail; and he has a working prototype in his lab.  Podkletnov cannot match any of these claims.

Woodward's device relies on Mach's Principle.  This principle is one of the leading explanations for the origin of inertia.  Inertia, as you may recall from physics class, is the tendency of a massive object to resist acceleration.  For example, if you push on a heavily loaded airport luggage cart, it requires a lot of force to get it to move quickly.  And, once it is moving quickly (in other words, has a large velocity), it requires an equally large counter force to slow it down again.

Mach's Principle attempts to explain this resistance by virtue of the combined gravitational attraction on the object from all other objects in the universe.  Each of us, and everything around us, is being pulled in all directions by the combined gravity of all the matter that is.  Everywhere.  Farther than the best telescope can see.  Even though the strength of the pull from a single galaxy 2 billion light years from Earth is small, when you combine the pulls of all visible matter, the sum of the strengths, or what physicists call the gravitational potential, is huge indeed -- up to the square of the speed of light in magnitude!  Woodward shows in his papers how this reduces, conveniently, to producing the famous equation F = M A (force equals mass times acceleration).

His effect arises from a mathematical term in Einstein's theory of General Relativity which is routinely dropped when physicists are using it to model slow moving objects like the Earth and sun.  This dropped term predicts that an object with a rapidly changing energy density will have a corresponding rapidly changing mass.  That's right, we're talking about mass, not weight.  Weight is a property of an object which depends on the local gravitational force; on the moon you weigh 1/6 what you weigh on the Earth, but your mass would be the same.

This change is very small in normal situations, and occurs as an increase and decease around the rest mass of the object, so no one notices such things.  But, Woodward has found that this can be used as a propellantless propulsion mechanism in a simple way.  Simply vibrate such an object up and down in time with the mass oscillations, so that it is always being accelerated upwards when it is light and downwards when it is heavy.  A small time-averaged force will be generated.

What is so great about propellantless propulsion?  This: It's easy in the vicinity of a star like our sun to generate lots of electricity for very long periods of time using solar panels.  Away from a star, you can generate large amounts of electricity through nuclear means (like NASA's Galileo spacecraft> uses while it studies Jupiter); it has been nearly 10 years since Galileo was launched.  If we could find a way to drive a spacecraft simply with electricity, without expending a limited resource like fuel, then the spacecraft would be able to accelerate to tremendous velocities.  It is impossible to use conventional chemical rockets to reach equally large velocities, because of a law of diminishing returns.  The more fuel you carry, the more your mass is.  So, more fuel must be burned to accelerate a to a given velocity.  And, eventually it runs out!.  

Check out the Woodward link> for more details.

Until now, there has not existed a central place for both supporting and contradictory views of these issues to be presented, as well as both scientific and popular discussion.  As a result, this web site attempts to serve as a complete reference to all experiments>, papers (off> and on >the Internet), popular reports> about the shielding of gravity by superconductors, as well as the Woodward propulsion concept, and other web sites> that discuss these issues.  Furthermore, no censoring of material will be done -- the site will contain both skeptical and supportive views, both negative and positive experimental results.

This page also serves as a place to report the author's own experiments> to reproduce the gravity shielding reported by John Schnurer.  Schnurer's experiment was much simpler in nature than Podkletnov's, so much so that the author was inspired to attempt it.  Schnurer subsequently announced> new results, with an experiment based on Fred Rounds'.  However, as it came to light in Charles Platt's Wired Magazine (6.03) article>, Schnurer ignored the most obvious cause of apparent weight loss in his test apparatus -- he was inadvertently boiling the liquid nitrogen surrounding his coil-and-superconductor stack, causing an upward force to be produced, reducing the apparent weight of the stack, every time he applied power to the coils.

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    Post questions to the public forum on Yahoogroups:

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上一主题:我说该休止无聊的论战了!只是为... 下一主题:刘启新先生的《失灵了的万有引力...
[楼主]  [2楼]  作者:jqsphy  发表时间: 2003/05/25 13:40 

Silin
至于号称思想丛林之理论正确与否论的终级总结者的我,怎么也会陷入这无聊的辩论中那?

【【【【【【我也感到的确无聊。但是,Silin先生,如果你能给出10个问题的数学计算,
就会结束我们之间的无聊。
我认为您目前还没资格做什么“终级总结者”,因为您不懂计算,缺少认知纯物理学术规范,
是这个网上唯一一个有自己特色的人,我认为您只是一个自然哲学工作者,不属于这个网上的“物理工作者”


怪不得我们之间无共同语言(因为物理学不好,所以沦落为“自然哲学工作者”,这是常事,呵呵)。
所以,您的问题除了本人一个人很关心外,好像找不到第二人了。】】】】】】



原因只有一个:就是他用回避问题、转移话题、偷换论题等纠缠不清的阴谋鬼计将我逼的!


【【【别人说我回避问题,倒有几分属于事实(因为他们有些问题问得很不是恰当或者问得很唐突,
很难让我回答“是”或者“不是”,应该分层次分情况回答)。
但是我们之间的讨论,我不存在回避问题的事情。其实从一开始,我就对您的哲学不感兴趣,
因为它对纯物理研究无用,但是我一开始就没有全盘否认您的哲学啊,
在后来讨论深入了,我更认为您的哲学是有道理的,把您与罗把切夫斯基几何相比(这是褒义)。
但是,如果您今后不给出我的10个问题的解释,那么把您与罗把切夫斯基几何相比,
就会慢慢变成贬义和讽刺了,我不希望这样(我在几天前的一则关于非欧几何的科学小品中,
对您褒贬都有。对于其中对您的“贬义”,我向您道歉。在您还未给出10个问题答案之前,
我不应该这么早就下结论。如果您最后宣布无能力计算,或者再经人帮助后仍旧无能力计算,
那么我的“贬义”不再客气。我希望您能按照学术规范,对您的哲学做一下10个问题的具体应用,
写几篇真正的学术论文,重现当年量子力学创立之初,Bohr的“伟大三步曲”,
Schrodinger的半年三篇论文(Schroding方程的导出,计算氢原子能谱,计算谐振子能谱等)
奠定了目前量子力学教材的基本框架,重现当年Heisenberg,Born,Jordan的“一个人的论文”,
“两个人的论文”,“三个人的论文”这些光辉历史)。这段历史,对您的意义也“褒贬”都有:
如果您成功了,
那么历史就被您改写;如果您失败了,那么这段历史就是对您的讽刺了
(因为并不是每个人都能成为BOhr,Schrodinger之流的)。您如果满足于目前的现状
(不做计算,不举例子),这是很不好的,具有这样行为的人不是太少了,而是太多了。
但是能把自己的哲学与具体计算例子结合起来的,才是物理工作者的本分工作,这类人就少了许多;
最终能成功的,少之又少,也就只有罗把切夫斯基,
Rienmann,Gell-Mann,Bohr,Schrodinger,Hersenberg之流了。我希望我们彼此都能以他们为榜样。
我每天也有一两个思想诞生,但是大多被自己的计算否定了。
下面这一段Copy自我日记:
比如,我大前天想到刘武清的芬兰人实验(我与刘武清之间曾有私人友谊关系,下面再讲),
我想能否用超导体的转动磁化来影响其介电常数与磁导率,从而影响真空零点能,从而影响宇宙常数。
这个思想令人激动,但是计算表明,这个效应在地球上很小很小(只有在一些超密星中才会明显),
于是被我抛弃;前天想到Rindler真空的安鲁效应,我潜意识感到它与几何相因子有关,
我于是在24日花了整个夜里(十几个小时)做了数学证明,最后看出:大致数学框架的确暗含着两者的联系
(细节证明有待继续);昨日想到目前研究的很火热的负材料(Left-handed media)
可能会与电荷共厄变换联系起来,于是
我先研究Dirac方程中的正负能解与螺旋度分类,的确发现正负材料之间有一种镜像对称性,
我很高兴,然后我再研究复场Maxwell方程(大家所熟悉的是实场Maxwell方程),
可是没有取得我预想的结果,很不成功.......,于是放弃。
沈建其评论自己和大家:一个人有很多思想是正常的,但是所有思想未必都正确,
所以必须用计算估计来排除其中不合理的思想,免得思想越积越多,抱着一大堆连自己都无法鉴别的错误思想不放,
令自己执迷不悟,想想激动,听听感动,不知觉滋生出“自己是古往今来第一人”的思想,可是实际在自欺欺人。


前几年我看到一个湖南下岗工人,每月只有300块工资,自己说自己的物理知识只有高中水平,他出了一本小册子,寄给各高校图书馆,
他几十年抱着一个思想:既然有光子,光是亮的,那么必然还存在着暗的粒子,如黑子,
那么黑洞一定由黑子组成。如果他又计算能力,他就能给出一个理论来证明或者证伪自己。可惜,他没有,几十年的时间就这么自欺欺人的僵硬着这个思想。


】】】


所以我最后一次求他别再为谬论而本末倒置的强词夺理了!还是放下穷酸秀才的架子好吗?


【【【【只要给出例子,我很容易被说服。您没有例子,我倒觉得您空有架子,
因此您穷,因为我不信任您的空架子,从而您认为我比您更穷。您的请求,正是我的要求。
我无法说服您,您也无法说服我,但是计算例子能说服我们之中的任何一人。】】】】

[楼主]  [3楼]  作者:jqsphy  发表时间: 2003/05/25 14:58 

关于我说“污辱谩骂性质言辞”,则是冤枉。

所谓的“穷”是指:他只是背熟了教材上的物理学假说而巳。所以表面上虽给人以学富五车、
才高八斗的印象,但实质上因他对自然界真相有关的其它知识您不闻不问,才“穷”的除了谬荒说教之外几
乎没有多少真知卓见,

【【【【【【【【“什么是真相,你的才是真相?你算老几,光凭几个想法,就有资格来来重新定义概念了”。
Sinlin请注意:以上言论不是出自我口,而是出自我导师的口。这些话他是用来骂人的(也曾经骂过我和我的师兄们的某些缺点),
他是一个很看重例子的人,要求每篇论文都要举几个计算例子来作证,最好能与当前实验条件能联系起来的
例子。我的师兄们(现在大多都成了教授)都得益于他的言传身教。我也如此。】】】】】】】


否则怎会明知刘武青效应没有多大的研究意义和学术价值,却与其年复一年的
纠缠起来没完没了;根本不考虑这样非但不能体现他的才华,反而因他是版主而降低了本论坛的层次;
这就是他真理性知识贫乏的具体表现之一,……

【【【【【【主要是因为与刘武清的东西相关的东西我曾经研究过,有的目前还在研究。
我对这方面研究很感兴趣,虽然认为它们无理论意义。与刘武清讨论,很多属于研究闲暇中的“闲话”,
也算业余收获。并非为了讨论而讨论。
以前我没有关于转动磁化,Barnett效应,李宁试验,芬兰人实验的文献,我这上半年全找到了,
三类七八篇文献介绍给他,而刘武清他不看文献,
光凭新闻报道,实在龌龊。我看不惯他的吹牛和因为无知就乱说,
但是对他的实践精神我还是很欣赏的,尤其对他的电化学实验,
则认为属于是对的(但是他自封“场电源之父”,则不对)。
我与刘武清先生曾经有私人联系关系(不过现在早已断了,因为彼此对对方有意见),
他说过他在认识我之前,来过浙大。我把浙江温州的一位助理工程师介绍给他,他们通过电话。
不过后来他们两人都告诉我:“我听不懂他的口音,不知道他在说些什么”。
刘武清先生也算一个悲剧,他尽管有很多专利,有很多报章介绍过他(尽管这些报章在我看来都是不入
什么流的),但关键是由于他无法为自己定位,错误+研究常识性东西+吹牛,最终是一个悲剧。
人必须对自己有一个明确的定位,这才是明智和成功。我很可惜他。
Silin虽然也不看重刘武清,但是应该承认刘先生他的实践精神则是很可贵的。
我的博士导师说过:对于学术实践,实践可以有三种方案:数学解析计算和证明,计算机数值模拟,仪器实验。
我一般用第一种方案,我很多同学和同事善于第二方案,刘武清用的是第三方案。
从这一点讲,我与刘武清行为并无二致,我们有更多对于学术规范的认同感,都属于“物理人”。
董先生等人也用第一方案;Tongzr对待广义相对论,质疑思想很多,但是缺少数量级估算的习惯(他的许多质疑的数量级估算我都替他算了)。
用数值模拟的人这里几乎没有。大多用第一种方案。所以,Silin也应该拿出方案来,我想一般他也用数学解析计算和证明。
】】】

 


 

 

 

而谓的“酸”是指:每当他说服不了谁之后,就三句话不来、第四活准保就来污辱谩骂性质的过激言辞。
所以两年以来他我之间的冲突仅原于此,并不是有什么讲不清或无法证明的道理、只是他根本就不想靠摆
实事来讲道理,

【【【我多次重申:我很少甚至几乎不说污辱谩骂性质的过激言辞。
这以前网友们也有过对我这方面的良好评论的。
我不知道您这是怎么总结出我有污辱谩骂性质的过激言辞的习惯的?
我对某些人的理论评论过属于低级性研究,对刘先生评论过“吹牛”,我想这些属于对事不对人的,并且这样评论,也是符合事实的。至于说我“污辱谩骂性质”的言词,则是对我的冤枉。
我同时与四五个网友多月做评论和讨论,言词大多属于“苦口婆心”的。
即使我真的有污辱谩骂性质的过激言辞出现,那也是占很少很少比例的,
人非圣贤,有时说几句过激言词,也算正常,不能代表是我的个人常有行为。那么Silin说我“穷酸秀才,理性不足、
学术酸性有余”是不是污辱谩骂性质的言辞呢??
我实在想不出我什么时候常有这一习惯。所以,Silin冤枉我了。
我想恐怕是,Silin作为一个哲学人,而非一个物理人,所以才会有这么一个误解。】】】

 

例如:他不顾不解释明白氢与光的问题,根本就谈不明白氢光谱问题这一事实,却本末倒
置并不厌其烦的总提他的氢光谱问题,与大举发难并只字不提我的氢与光问题,这无疑是他科学理性不足、
学术酸性有余的一种,

【【【这个才是具体学术问题。
我虽然对于正统物理马首是瞻,是因为它给出了与实验一致的氢光谱公式。当然,
我也知道,近代物理并非没有缺陷。它给出了与实验一致的氢光谱公式,并非说这些公式就是对的。
所以我也没有全盘否认您的思想啊。
也正因为我“不解释明白氢与光的问题,根本就谈不明白氢光谱问题这一事实”,
所以才向您请教您的氢光谱问题,可是您实际上什么都没有给出。
您至少应该给出您的氢光谱公式给我比较鉴别啊?您至少应该给出近代物理已经给出的东西
(10个问题的解答),从而来较量啊?您没有给出,我凭什么来相信您?
思想?就凭您的“氢与光问题”思想。您的“氢与光问题”思想比近代物理“氢与光问题”
思想即使先进,也需要由氢光谱公式来说话啊?在您提出氢光谱公式之前,我看不出您的“氢与光问题”
思想比近代物理“氢与光问题”思想先进在哪里。
您有回答这些问题的责任,我希望您在写论文(10个问题的解答)时回答以上这些问题。
唉,这种纠缠真是无聊。1964年,李政道与Gell-Mann的谈话只有一句话:“太玄,我不信,您能否预言一个粒子给我看看?”Gell-Mann爽快,“那我试试看。”我们之间竟然这么婆婆妈妈,我真的不明白。
唉,现在明白了:原来与哲学人的谈论就是累(当然,Silin也感到与物理人的谈论感到累),我们都感到累,原因在于对学术规范的认同。
我全盘接受Silin作为哲学人对我的批评(某些批评我可能一下子还理解不了或者接受不了,
但是我相信他是有道理在其中的,因为他对我的抱怨很厉害。当然我的抱怨也厉害,
我的某些批评他也无法一下子接收下来)。
彼此算打一个平手,哲学人与物理人的平手,谁也不欠。我们讨论就算停止了。
我如果想成为一个哲学人,那么我当然得去学习和明白Silin的某些规范;但是Silin如果想做一个物理人,那么首先也得学会说Gell-Mann的很爽快的话“那我试试看。”
作为物理人的一个素质,就是不要委屈于别人对自己的无礼发难。
GeLL-Mann当初的SU(3)方案已经将当时发现的几百种基本粒子分类,
并解释了每一个基本粒子的电荷,自旋,宇称,超荷等性质,对于李政道的发难,
我也替他感到委屈。但是Gell-Mann有物理人素质。你我都得继续好好学习这个素质。
我对刘武清的发难太多了,我估计他永远也回答不了我的问题,永远也无法理解为什么他的东西有
三分之一属于常识性东西(不是他的发现),三分之一属于错误,三分之一属于吹牛。不过他的精
神可嘉,我批评他的光源旋转效应有错误,他就买来音叉研究,并报告他的实验结果
(不过我对他用耳朵,而非仪器,来测量频率变化的方法觉得很粗糙。他凭此就能判断他的转动效应带来
的频率改变不属于声源Doppler效应带来的频率改变,从而说成是自己的发现??)。
站在物理之外(或者超越物理的高度)来看,Silin的总体路子还是对的。
但是最终还是要由实验来回答。在实验之前,我建议他应该给出氢光谱公式来。因为只有这才是看得见模得着得东西,Silin其他的思想即使再先进正确,我也无法感知到。这就是我的苦口婆心。】】】】】】

 


 

 [4楼]  作者:silin007  发表时间: 2003/05/26 08:42 

回复:谣言止于智者!何必此地无银三百两的申辩那?
谣言止于智者!何必此地无银三百两的申辩那?反正您说的每一句都在怕什么?么非是作贼心虚……

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为了曰早推翻《电动力学》与其《相对性原理》及其《量子理论》等等必错无疑的科学假说; 现将我的终极论坛改为只读版[chinasilin.xilubbs.com] 以便大家了解我在这里倒相的历程
[楼主]  [5楼]  作者:jqsphy  发表时间: 2003/05/26 14:00 

芬兰人1997年实验摘要

Condensed Matter, abstract
cond-mat/9701074

From: Modanese Giovanni <modanese@alpha.science.unitn.it>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:17:07 +0100 (MET)   (104kb)
Date (revised): Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:04:12 +0100 (MET)
Date (revised): Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:55:22 +0200 (MET DST)

Weak gravitation shielding properties of composite bulk YBa_2Cu_3O_{7-x} superconductor below 70 K under e.m. field

Author: E.E. Podkletnov>
Comments: LaTeX, 14 pages. 9 PostScript figures
Report-no: MSU-chem 95
Subj-class: Superconductivity
A high-temperature YBa_2Cu_3O_{7-x} bulk ceramic superconductor with composite structure has revealed weak shielding properties against gravitational force while in a levitating state at temperatures below 70 K. A toroidal disk was prepared using conventional ceramic technology in combination with melt-texture growth. Two solenoids were placed around the disk in order to initiate the current inside it and to rotate the disk about its central axis. Samples placed over the rotating disk initially demonstrated a weight loss of 0.3-0.5%. When the rotation speed was slowly reduced by changing the current in the solenoids, the shielding effect became considerably higher and reached 1.9-2.1% at maximum.

Full-text: PostScript>, PDF>, or Other formats>

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