| Sagnac效应本质上是经典的多普勒效应，广义和狭义相对论的解释都错了 有关Sagnac效应的讨论很多，想要三言两语说清楚本帖标题的内容是不可能的。陈老師在他的英文书《不带假设的相对论和量子力学以及引力的起源》第一章中用了很大篇幅讨论Sagnac效应，要详细了解其内容，最好是看原文（各省市图书馆和各研究性大学图书馆都有）。为了方便一些想大概了解一下的网友，我在此做一个简要的介绍。 以往许多解释的关键出错在：Sagnac效应与迈-莫实验一样，实际测量的是相位差，而不是速度差。已有解释都是从速度差的光程差得出待测的相位差，但是实际的相位差不但取决于光程差，还与光波的频率变化以及波长变化直接相关，没有考虑到被比较的两光束可能存在的频率差和波长差，仅仅考虑了被比较的两光束的光程差，漏掉产生相位差的另一重要因素，其计算结果必然出错。为了使大家对所讨论的问题有个概括的全面了解，下面将先贴出英文书目录（仅第一章我附了中译文） |
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续 Relativity and Quantum Mechanics without Hypothesis and Origin of Gravitation 不带假设的相对论和量子力学以及引力的起源Chen ShaoguangCataloguePreface Catalogue Introduction Chapter 1 Relativity and Quantum Mechanics Established from Measuring Results of Doppler Effect…由多普勒的测量结果建立的相对论和量子力学1.1 Space / Time and Coordinate Systems…空间/时间和坐标系1.1.1 International definition of basal units基本单位的国际定义1.1.2 Metrical space/time of Galilean original idea伽利略原初的测量的空间/时间 1.1.3 Absolute space/time with Galilean invariance伽利略不变性的空间/时间 1.1.4 Relative space-time with Lorentz invariance洛仑兹不变性的相对空间-时间1.2 Self-Inconsistent Test Theory of Special Relativity不自洽狭义相对论验验理论 1.2.1 Classical ether theory经典以太论 1.2.2 Robertson’s theory…Robertson的理论 1.2.3 Mansouri–Sexl’s theory…Mansouri–Sexl的理论 1.3 Doppler Effect of Absolute Velocities…绝对速度的多普勒效应 1.3.1 Exclusive self-consistent selection唯一自洽的选择 1.3.2 Preferred vacuum frame and absolute velocity…优越的真空坐标和绝对速 1.3.3 Doppler effect of absolute velocity in Michelson type interferometer在迈克尔逊型式干涉仪中的绝对速度的多普勒效应在 1.3.4 Doppler effect of absolute velocity in Sagnac interferometer 在Sagnac干涉仪中的绝对速度的多普勒效应 1.3.5 Doppler effect of fiber’s absolute velocity in generalized Sagnac interferometer在广义的Sagnac干涉仪中的绝对速度的多普勒效应1.4 Experiments for Testing Special Relativity…检验狹义相对论的实验 1.4.1 Method of heterodyne beat frequency with common mode restraint technique带共模抑制技术的外差拍频法1.4.2 Twinborn interferometer and experimental test for the isotropy of two-way speed of light…孪生干涉仪与双向光速各向同性的实验检验 1.4.3 Sagnac test Sagnac的检验 1.4.4 Michelson and Gale test… Michelson和Gale的检验 1.4.5 Generalized Sagnac effect… 广义的Sagnac的检验 1.4.6 Sagnac effect confrontation relativity… Sagnac效应对抗相对论 1.5 Methods for Calibrating Two Clocks at Different Places…校准不同地点两钟的方法 1.5.1 Clock synchronization with a single clock and an ultrasonic medium line用一个钟和一根超声传输线的钟同步 1.5.2 Clock synchronization with a single clock and an optically anisotropic crystalloid line用一个钟和一根光学各向异性晶体线的钟同步 1.5.3 Clock synchronization with dual-counters cum real-time operation of computer用双计数器连同计算机实時运算的钟同步.5.4 Bypass the clock synchronization with international units of quantum transition state用量子跃迁态的国际单位躲开钟同步1.6 Methods for Measuring One-way Velocity of Light 测量单向光速的方法 1.6.1 Direct measurement…直接测量 1.6.2 Indirect measurement…间接测量 1.6.3 Measurement by means of heterodyne interference and beat frequency…用外差干涉和拍频法测量1.7 Direct Experiment Test of Clock-Slow and Ruler-Contract Effects of Lorentz Transformation…罗仑兹变换的钟慢与尺缩效应的直接的实验检验 1.8 Uncertainty Principle Caused by the Collision of a Particle with CMB Photons and Virtual Photons由一个粒子与CMB光子和虚光子的碰撞引起的测不准原理 1.9 Relativity and Quantum Mechanics Based on the Measures of One-way Velocity of Light and Doppler Frequency Shift基于单向光速和多普勒频移测量的相对论和量子力学 1.10 Origin of Virtual Particle in Quantum Field Theory…量子场论中的虚粒子的起源 Chapter 2 Origin of Gravitation2.1 New Version of General Relativity 2.2 Quasi-Casimir Effect of Vacuum Polarization in Weak Interaction 2.3 Formula of Vacuum Polarization Pressure in Weak Interaction 2.3.1 Vacuum fluctuation virtual neutrino ν02.3.2 Pressure exerted on isolated mass-point by ν0 —— zero net force 2.3.3 Pressure exerted on non-isolated mass-point by ν0 —— non-zero net force 2.3.4 Background radiation true particles in dynamic equilibrium with the vacuum fluctuation victual particles 2.4 Schwarzschild’s Metric and Einstein’s Equation Derived from Quantum Field Theory 2.4.1 Schwarzschild’s metric derived from quasi-Casimir force 2.4.2 Einstein’s equation derived from the equivalence principle within quasi-Casimir force2.4.3 Compensating action of electric polarization caused by gravity——Why gravitation is independent of the composition of matter 2.5 Quasi-Casimir Pressure in Weak Interaction —— Gravitation 2.6 Grand Unification of Gravitation and Strong, Weak, Electromagnetic Interactions 2.7 Gravitational Field ——Net Virtual Neutrino ν0 Flux 2.8 Relativity Essentially Related to Quantum Theory2.8.1 Constancy principle of the light speed based on the uncertainty principle 2.8.2 Equivalent principle based on Pauli’s exclusion principle2.8.3 Changes in mass by inductive energy transfer of general relativity and by mass renormalization in quantum field theory Chapter 3 Gravitational Quantum Effects and Velocity Dependency 3.1 Positive-Negative Charge Separation by Gravitation and the Magnetic Moment Accompanied with Angular Momentum 3.1.1 Experimental and observational evidences for the hypothesis of magnetic moment accompanied with angular momentum 3.1.2 Magnetic field of rotational celestial body originates from the positive-negative charge separation of atoms by gravitational origin mechanism 3.1.3 Physical effect of “absolute” velocity relative to microwave background radiation 3.2 Non-conservation of Energy in Gravitational Interaction and Time Arrowhead 3.3 Gravitational Waves of Dipolar Radiation 3.3.1 Change rate in orbital period of pulsar binary by dipolar radiation 3.3.2 Minkovski’s space-time cannot bear and carry the gravitational wave of quadrupole radiation 3.3.3 Energy flux density of dipolar radiation from some celestial bodies 3.3.4 Weber detected the gravitational wave of dipole radiation 3.4 Velocity Dependency of Gravitation 3.5 Explanation for the Un-modeled Anomalous Acceleration of Pioneer 3.6 Experiment Plan of Testing the Velocity Dependency of Gravitation3.7 Prediction “GP-B Would Not Be Able to Detect the Advance of Lense-Thirring Effect 3.8 Temperature Effects of Gravitation Chapter 4 Shielding Effect of Gravitation and Its Experimental Tests 4.1 Formula of Gravitational Shielding Effect4.2 Experimental Results with Torsion Balance Method on the Deviation to the Inverse Square Law 4.3 Experimental Results with Geophysics Method on Detecting the Fifth Kind Force 4.4 Experimental Results with Para-conical Pendulum and Torsion Pendulum 4.5 Experimental Results with Gravimeter on Allais’s Effect 4.5.1 Gravity from the sun on gravimeter cancelled out mainly by centrifugal force 4.5.2 Asymmetry of the solid tide valley value caused by the earth to shield the solar gravity 4.5.3 Gravity anomalous valley caused by the moon shielding the solar gravity during the couse of the solar eclipse4.5.4 Relative gravimeters —— the apparatus of differential measurement of time or space gradient of gravity 4.5.5 Maximum gradient of solar gravity should be before the first contact and after the fourth contact during the eclipse4.5.6 Atomic clock cannot respond to the gravity gradient caused by the eclipse 4.5.7 Solid tide on the day of the solar eclipse 4.6 Neutrino Oscillation and Number Density of Virtual Photon, Virtual Neutrino 4.6.1 Analysis of experimental evidences for neutrino oscillation 4.6.2 Number density of virtual photon and virtual neutrino4.6.3 Times of collision between solar neutrino and virtual neutrino of vacuum fluctuation 4.7 “Dark Matter” by Gravitational Nonlinearity 4.8 “Dark Energy” by Gravitational Nonlinearity 4.9 Black Hole inside Neutron Star by Gravitational Nonlinearity Chapter 5 Gravitational Redshift on the Way and Its Experimental Test 5.1 Measurable Quantity of Gravitational Redshift 5.2 Gravitational Redshift on the Way Derived from Quantum Field Theory 5.3 Gravitational Redshift on the Way Derived from General Relativity 5.4 Prediction of Gravitational Redshift on the Way Is Consistent with Predictions of Deflection of Light and Radar Echo Delay 5.5 Experimental Result of Radar Echo Delay — An Evidence of Gravitational Redshift on the Way 5.6 Observational Results of Deflection of Light — Another Evidence of Gravitational Redshift on the Way 5.7 γ Ray Redshift Experiments in Laboratory Have Already Confirmed Gravitational Redshift on the Way 5.8 Experiments for Gravitational Redshift on Aircraft 5.9 Experiment Plan to Test Gravitational Redshift on the Way Chapter 6 True Universe 6.1 Hubble’s Redshift, Just the Gravitational Redshift on the Way 6.2 Einstein’s Mistake Leading to the Hypothesis of Universe Expanding 6.2.1 Gravitational redshift deduced by Einstein with Newtonian law 6.2.2 Gravitational redshift deduced by Einstein with the time component of metric6.2.3 Gravitational redshift deduced by Weinberg with the equivalence principle 6.3 Hubble’s Law and the Dispersibility of the Redshift Curve 6.4 Abnormal Redshift and Missing Mass 6.5 Puzzle about Quasars 6.6 Microwave Background Radiation 6.7 Neutrino Background Radiation 6.8 Abundance of Helium and Age of the Cosmos 6.9 Brightness Paradox and Gravitation Paradox 6.10 Cosmological Principle 6.11 Localized Cosmos — Sky outside Sky References Total From the Author |
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对【5楼】说： 续上 1.3 Doppler Effect of Absolute Velocities1.3.1 Exclusive self-consistent selection A self-consistent test theory of special relativity —— the Doppler effect of absolute velocities is proposed by Chen and Liu [4] in 1996 via the analysis of the relationship between the light speed c, the light wavelength λ and light frequency ν.Let the sign c(θ), λ(θ) and ν(θ) denote respectively the anisotropic light speed, light wavelength and light frequency, and the sign c, λ and ν denote respectively the isotropic light speed, light wavelength and light frequency.[c, λ, ν] is the usual state. [c, λ(θ), ν] and [c, λ, ν(θ)] are inexistent, because both of them contradict with the universal relationship [c＝ λ ν]. [c(θ), λ, ν] is in contradiction with [c ＝ λ ν], which causes the theories of ether, Robertson and Mansouri–Sexl based on the preferred frame Σ to be all the self-contradictory theories. [c, λ(θ), ν(θ)] is a possible state, which leads to that the phase difference predicted by the theories of ether, Robertson and Mansouri–Sexl is incertitude and useless. [c(θ), λ(θ), ν(θ)] is the most complex state in the possible states, and in this state the effective test theory can not be established. Lastly, we would like to emphasize the need for analysing the states: [c(θ), λ(θ), ν] and [c(θ), λ, ν(θ)].1, In [c(θ), λ(θ), ν] the difficulty of wavelength anisotropy In the condition of the one dimension scalar —— isotropic light frequency ν, the anisotropic light speed c(θ) may co-exist with the anisotropic light wavelength λ(θ). When c(θ) and λ(θ) change synchronously with the same proportion, the universal relationship c＝ λ ν still hold. But the anisotropic light wavelength λ(θ) leads to that the ‘meter’ —— international definition length unit is anisotropic one. Then the resonance cavity of laser —— the light source of precision experiments will be anisotropic one, and it is possible for the cavity to satisfy the resonance condition and then to emit the laser in some directions, but not in some other directions. In order to ensure a laser to produce a beam of laser in any direction, we need to assume that the length of a laser cavity L changes along with light wavelength λ(θ), which means that the three-dimensional metric space is no longer the Euclid’s space. The variations in metric with directions will just counteract the phase difference caused by the anisotropy of c(θ) or λ(θ), then the anisotropy of light speed c(θ) will not cause any measurable effect.2, In [c(θ), λ, ν(θ)] the paradox of frequency anisotropyIn the condition of the isotropic light wavelength λ, the anisotropic light speed c(θ) may co-exist with the anisotropic light frequency ν(θ). When c(θ) and ν(θ) change synchronously with the same proportion, the universal relationship c＝ λ ν still hold. But when we really consider that the light frequency is an anisotropic one ν(θ), we can again prove that the light frequency is an isotropic one ν for the steady light wave. If points 1 and 2 are at rest in a stationary gravitational field (Earth’s S frame), the time taken by a wave crest to travel from point 2 to point 1 will be a constant given by the integral of over the path, and therefore the time dt1 between the arrivals of the successive crests at point 1 will equal the time dt2 between their departures at point 2, namely, the receiving frequency ν1 at point 1 will equal the emitting frequency ν2 at point 2. Concretely speaking, as long as the light wave does not change with the time, this conclusion that receiving ν1 equals emitting ν2 will hold for any receiving point 1 in any direction of the earth no matter whether the light speed value is big or small and how it varies with directions. That is to say, on the condition of the isotropic light wavelength λ, though the light speed c(θ) is anisotropic but the light frequency ν is isotropy, the paradox —— c(θ) = λ ν still appears.Finally, the conclusion is: what is exclusively self-consistent is that the light speed, light wavelength and light frequency [c, λ, ν] are all isotropic. 1.3.2 Preferred vacuum frame and absolute velocity |
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为什么删我的贴？
Sagnac 效应不可能有频率变化，因此与多普勒效应无关。这是显而易见的。 只要考虑一下光的波的个数，以光纤环为例，光纤环中光的波的个数不可能不断增加或减少。由此可知，出来的波的个数，必然等于进入的波的个数。因此，光的频率不可能有变化，因此与多普勒效应无关。 |
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对【10楼】说： Sagnac 效应的实验中你见谁用频率计测量了光波的频率? 实际测量的都是相位差!影响相位的三大因素光速、波长、频率[c(θ), λ(θ), ν(θ)]，7楼贴出了陈老師的分析：[c(θ), λ, ν]是基于优越坐标系的以太论、Robertson and Mansouri–Sexl三大理论的情况，它是自相矛盾的而不成立。 [c, λ(θ), ν(θ)] 是成立的，这正是引力场中既存在频率减小的红移，同时又存在波长增大的红移，但光速c=λ(θ)ν(θ)却是不变的。爱因斯坦没认识到这一点而犯下的错误引爆了宇宙。[c, λ(θ), ν] 和 [c, λ, ν(θ)]明显是不成立的。六种可能的组合中剩下 [c(θ), λ(θ), ν] 和 [c(θ), λ, ν(θ)] 可能成立。但[c(θ), λ(θ), ν]有波长各向异性的困难，[c(θ), λ, ν(θ)] 有频率各向异性的佯谬，请看7楼英文的详细分析。最后只有唯一自洽的选择是：真空中光速、波长、频率三者都是各向同性的[c, λ, ν]。能引起相位差也就只有绝对速度的多普勒效应，其他的解释都因不自洽而不成立。 光在量子涨落的真空中传播，Sagnac干涉仪的反射镜对真空的絶对速度会产生多普勒效应，同一反射镜对相反方向传播的光束有不同的多普勒频移，从而导致两光束产生相位差。道理清楚了，谁都会计算，也可看书中1.3.4节Sagnac干涉仪和1.3.5节广义Sagnac干涉仪的计算。
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[15楼]
光程差的结果就是相位差。 ※※※※※※ 空间本无物理性质，具有以太的空间才有了局部静止系、惯性，运动才可以自身测量。 |
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光的方向改变引起光的频率改变 ※※※※※※ 孔德之容，唯道是从。 |
| 与参考系的选择无关。单位时间内，而且是在同一点计时，进入光纤环的波的个数，也就是频率了，等于从光纤环出来的波的个数。频率变化根本不可能存在。 |
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“Sagnac效应本质上是经典的多普勒效应，广义和狭义相对论的解释都错了”这句话又是一个伪命题。
在选择特定参考系作比较，Sagnac是可以看作是多普勒效应，但这不是其本质。另外，广义和狭义相对论的解释也恰好可以这么做到。总之，“Sagnac是可以看作是多普勒效应”与“广义和狭义相对论的解释错不错”没有关系。 |
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姗姗的话语就如同从母鸡肛门输出的排泄物……有珍贵的成分——鸡蛋；但更多的是糟粕——鸡粪
姗姗的“排泄物”中的鸡蛋就是：“萨格纳克效应”的本质可以归属于“多普勒效应”，这一点与在下的观点不谋而合。在下坚信这多普勒效应 是由光源（含反射面）与观察者（含入射面）之间的相对运动（即存在着速矢差）所致；而姗姗则坚信 这是由观察者（光接收器） （相对于以太的）绝对运动所致。 依据求大同存小异的原则，我与姗姗（或曰陈绍光）属于友军，含有共同的认识的成分；但也不尽相同；至少同路一段，只不过 在下并不认同 绝对运动论，坚信相对性原理，但这与“萨格纳克效应”可归属于“多普勒效应”并无原则性冲突；只是参照系的认同有别。 当然 姗姗的言论还流露出其他的不被在下认同的思想方法，那就更与主题无关，若在下去抨击，就会偏离讨论的主题。 在此，在下顺便提出建议：必须始终围绕主题进行讨论，不可随着感觉走 抓主非本质的问题使讨论偏离主题 譬如，姗姗提出 陈绍光老师曾发表论文阐论 萨格纳克效应可归属于多普勒效应，在下看到后 应该感到欣喜，因为 遇到 了同谋者。 在早些时候 在下 一直在呐喊 萨格纳克效应并非独立的光学规律而是与多普勒效应同属于“光行差”的范畴：即由于光源与观察者之间的相对运动所致；但在下一直以为 这只不过是在下一个不懂物理的外行人的一家之言，并没有得到任何人的附和 深切地感受到曲高和寡的凄凉，意外发现由姗姗发出了雷同的声音……在下 暗喜 有了盟友了 没想到居然发生了火并 这就是 在我们中国很难再物理学基础理论方面有所突破的主要因素 一般都是 散兵游勇 各自为政 孤军作战 萤火之光 力量微薄 力不从心 很难成功 即使遇到了同路人（观点相近者）也会因为争名夺利而发生火并 本来是同一战壕里的战友反而交了火，就好比两路农民军都是去偷袭日本军营的，没想到为了抢头功反而这两路农民军内部互相交了火，打得死伤一片，结果惊动了日本军都被日本军彻底剿灭了…… |
